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  •  » I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

#1 2007-04-15 05:02:43

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

I figured something i learned about optics might work for accoustics.  And it did.

If you have 3 equally lengthed sounds, fit into 2 beats, that's a triplet, right?

Right.

okay, but you can't do that in sequencer.

Not precisely.

HOWEVER, you CAN create 3 identical length sounds, in 2 beats.

Like THIS


immagine the O represents your drawn notes, and the [] represents a blank space.


   |OO[]O|O[]OO|

I sure hope that's clear.

Count the beats! 

Now, this is based on an optical illusion i remember, where you take some lines taht are equal length with gaps and do some inversion thing and it looks like a solid line.. something to do with the scatoma where you cant' see..

anyhow.. the ear has a sort of scatoma.. .

Here's how it works.

The first note, is 2 sections long.  The last is 2 sections long.  They both border on the end of the 2 beat section.  The MIDDLE one little section on either side of the MIDDLE>

it's SYMMETRICAL

that fools the ear into thinking it's hearing triplets.

the fact that the notes dont' start on the right point doesn't matter, it's a symmetrical sound.


try it out. 




Also, this is not related to creating techniques, what this is, is a fun thing.

Try a "whole tone scale"

It sounds most amazing.  Increase or decrease pitch by 2 lines while doing these triplets.. id on't know why, but it sounds like a computer should sound.

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#2 2007-04-15 05:22:13

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

i posted 2 harder but more accurate methods in the FAQ

i hope they are clear, if not , please let me know.

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#3 2007-04-15 05:28:38

jbuonacc
Centipede
From: Rochester, NY usa
Registered: 2007-02-07
Posts: 447

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

lol, not sure exactly what all that means (i'll look again in a bit), but i was *just* thinking about this driving home! here's an idea (not sure if this is what you mean):

three measures of 16 beats is equal to four measures of triplets, right? so, if you make a sequence that's three bars long and glue it together, there's your four bars of triplets. copy this for the whole song as a guide. then, inside the piano roll screen just disregard the set graph lines and program notes by three's. as this 3-bar sequence loops/runs into another it'll give the perfect illusion of triplets (as long as you program the whole song like this). or, you could get some nice polyrhythms going, no? theoretically i think this should solve it, but i haven't tried. is this what you're thinking?

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#4 2007-04-15 05:38:29

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

It only will give the illusion of triplets if it's the length of 2 beats, or 2 whole notes, or 2 of whatever you are "tripleting".

If you make triplet quarter notes, they ahve to fit into a half note.  triplet half notes have to fit into a whole note.  And so on. 

What you have figured out is that 3 measures of 16 beats is equal to 4 measures of 12 beats, not triplets sad  Sorry to say.  It's the classic "4/4" time to 3/4 time solution.

If you cant' do 3/4 time on sequencer, you do sequences that are 3 squares long, and have 4 simulated bars in them, rather than the 3 bars they represent.

So you've solved a different problem, the "how do I use another time signature" problem.  triplets are a differnt thing though.

But good thinking!

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#5 2007-04-15 05:44:58

jbuonacc
Centipede
From: Rochester, NY usa
Registered: 2007-02-07
Posts: 447

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

but isn't 3/4 time 'triplets'? you're right though, with this you can only get down to 8th-note triplets, not 16th's. does that make sense?

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#6 2007-04-15 05:54:30

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

nope, 3/4 time is 3/4 time.  Triplets are relative to the length of note, not thetime signature sad 

here's the difference.

In 3/4 time, you get 3 quarter notes in one bar.  3 BEATS per bar.

A triplet would have 3 notes in 2 BEATS... so in 3/4 time, you could do 3 quarter notes as triplets, and stillhave room for one more quarter note.  that's 4 notes!  one which is full length, 3 which are 2/3 length.

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#7 2007-04-15 20:06:56

Jaicen
Centipede
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 461

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

I have absolutely no idea what that first post is going on about! Is it just me??
Anyway, I'd personally go about this by working out how many ticks there are per 1/16th note, then building a wavetable with two notes at half as many ticks. That will give you a pseudo 32/th beat.

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#8 2007-04-15 20:21:25

jbuonacc
Centipede
From: Rochester, NY usa
Registered: 2007-02-07
Posts: 447

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

yeah, reading again i'm not even sure. is that showing eight 16th-notes in a row or what? do you need to double the tempo for this?

i'll check the other two methods again. maybe it'd make sense if i actually tried it out? big_smile

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#9 2007-04-16 00:31:06

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

Jaicen wrote:

I have absolutely no idea what that first post is going on about! Is it just me??
Anyway, I'd personally go about this by working out how many ticks there are per 1/16th note, then building a wavetable with two notes at half as many ticks. That will give you a pseudo 32/th beat.

This method is described in the FAQ.

however, what i'm talking about is an "autitory illusion"

to create the ILLUSION of triplets, you need a symmetrical arrangement of nearly equal length notes.

my little "[OO]X[OO]" is a graphical representation of what you'd draw in the sequencer.  Where X is a blank space, and [O] is a drawn note.

is you have "[OO]X[OO]X[OO]" creates the illusion of 8th note triplets.  "[OOOOO]X[OOOO]X[OOOOO]" creates the ullusion of 1/4note triplets (note the middle note is 4 squares long, not 5"



Try it and see, most people's ears will be fooled.

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#10 2007-04-16 16:23:28

david.michael
Gianas Sister
From: Dayton, OH
Registered: 2006-09-05
Posts: 20
Website

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

Slorrin wrote:

If you have 3 equally lengthed sounds, fit into 2 beats, that's a triplet, right?

No.  A triplet is 3 equal-length notes fit into a SINGLE beat.

ex:
http://www.dolmetsch.com/triplets.gif


-----------------
david.michael..||
-----------------

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#11 2007-04-16 16:24:52

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

Nope, look.  Those 3 8th notes fit into the space of 2 8th notes.

3 notes fitting into 2 beats.

Your own example verifies what i said.

2 8th notes = 1 quarter note.

3 8th note triplets = 1 quarter note

3 notes = 2 beats.

each 8th note = 2/3 the length of a true 8th note.

also, if you count beats by the time signature, what would triplet 1/4 notes be?  that's 3 notes into 2 beats.  triplet half notes?  3 notes into 4 beats.

What i meant was, 3 of a note into 2 of that note's face value.

Last edited by Slorrin (2007-04-16 16:26:20)

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#12 2007-04-16 16:33:04

david.michael
Gianas Sister
From: Dayton, OH
Registered: 2006-09-05
Posts: 20
Website

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

It's three notes in the time of two notes, not three notes in the time of two beats.  I guess it's a matter of terminology.

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/9140/tripsbu1.jpg


-----------------
david.michael..||
-----------------

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#13 2007-04-16 16:34:13

david.michael
Gianas Sister
From: Dayton, OH
Registered: 2006-09-05
Posts: 20
Website

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

What i meant was, 3 of a note into 2 of that note's face value.

Nvm, I see your edit covered that wink


-----------------
david.michael..||
-----------------

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#14 2007-04-17 13:45:58

Tristan
Pac-Man
From: Brum, UK
Registered: 2007-01-06
Posts: 247
Website

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

Sorry but I fail to see or hear any illusion of triplets using this method.


YOU are reading my unique forum signature.

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#15 2007-04-17 17:33:02

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

david.michael wrote:

It's three notes in the time of two notes, not three notes in the time of two beats.  I guess it's a matter of terminology.

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/9140/tripsbu1.jpg

Sorry, yes, that's more accurate.

3 notes in the time of 2 notes of equal face value.  3 "8ths" in the space of 2 real 8ths, 3 "1/4" in the space of 2 real 1/4 notes.

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#16 2007-04-17 17:46:51

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

Tristan wrote:

Sorry but I fail to see or hear any illusion of triplets using this method.

you're listening too hard.

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#17 2007-04-17 19:00:45

Tristan
Pac-Man
From: Brum, UK
Registered: 2007-01-06
Posts: 247
Website

Re: I cracked the "triplets" problem. I have triplets!!!!

LOL


YOU are reading my unique forum signature.

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