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#1 2006-10-25 16:41:16

dotmatrix
Monty
Registered: 2006-10-23
Posts: 87
Website

looses sync!!

hi
i discovered that the sequencer looses sync when switching from one page to another , that means when the spl reaches the right limit
and begins with in new page from the left again it looses som sync!! horrible in live situations!!!!
m.

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#2 2006-10-25 17:27:42

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: looses sync!!

does it do that if you deactivate the visual?

you can deactivate the visual but clicking the like icon that looks like a monitor.

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#3 2006-10-26 07:43:28

MikeTorino
Guest

Re: looses sync!!

That is because the computer needs to load another module, like the grid editor or sound editor. Good thing is that if it's already loaded it does not have to load it the second time.
Read the Sequencer manual. It's all in there on page 6....

 

#4 2006-10-29 15:59:43

dotmatrix
Monty
Registered: 2006-10-23
Posts: 87
Website

Re: looses sync!!

ok then tell me what must I do to avoid sync failure ?

i could deactivate catch , but then I don't know where i am when playing live.
i tried to scroll to the end of the track and from the end back to the beginning again and again , sometimes it works and I can
play the whole song without sync fail , but 1 out of 3 times it looses sync anyway.
what to do?

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#5 2006-10-29 18:13:02

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: looses sync!!

why not deactivate the screen?  deactivating the visual should help,

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#6 2006-10-30 07:42:38

MikeTorino
Guest

Re: looses sync!!

Deactivating the screen wont help, it's got nothing to do with it. Neither has the catch-option.
The short interruption when opening certain windows is due to loading the window module from the cartridge ROM. If you open the same window again after closing it you wont get an interruption, opening a new one and then the other will.
Try this: Open grid editor, close it and open it again...no lost syncs..
Open grid editor, close it, open instrument editor - interrupt! - close it, open it again, no interrupt.
Again, read page 6 in the manual, it's all there:

Being larger than the C64ís internal memory, the application needs to access the cartridge ROM to load window modules. Whenever this happens the computer halts for a split second. Be aware that the short delay may be enough to lose external sync information!
Subsequent calls to open the same window will not initiate ROM loads if itís already present in the computerís memory.
This constant flow of data between the cartridge and computer requires a flawless expansion port connection to ensure an error-free execution of the application.

 

#7 2006-10-30 08:38:33

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: looses sync!!

i don't understand why you are playing a song synced to a syn24 signal, WHILE simultaenously opening all the instrument editors and sequence windows.

why not just let it play?

disable the screen output / catch, so that the computer doesn't have to do any thinking by displaying the sequences on the screen as it scrolls, and leave it to play?


opening and closing lots of windows makes no sense.  It does you no good while playing...

I think maybe Mike Torino you misunderstand what he's trying to do.

he said it clearly, when it's playing, it loses sync when the SPL reaches the right hand side of the screen.  It's because the computer has to generate the visual of all the sequences in the next section of the secquence arranger.  It has nothing to do with loading modules.

Deactive the catch (click the little man) and click the screen icon.  That worked for me, i no loner lose sync, because the commodore is not searching the ram for data on the sequences, an then not generating any images of them on the screen.

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#8 2006-10-30 08:41:24

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: looses sync!!

MikeTorino wrote:

That is because the computer needs to load another module, like the grid editor or sound editor. Good thing is that if it's already loaded it does not have to load it the second time.
Read the Sequencer manual. It's all in there on page 6....

When he said "one screen to another" he didnt' mean a module, like the instrument editor, sequence editor, etc.. he meant a page in only the sequence arranger.

When it scrolls to the far right, after playing the sequences, the SPL reaches the edge of the screen and then the whole screen scrolls, revealing the next several sequence bars.  That iss causing him to lose sync, because the c64 has to think about that and then display it on screen.  it isn't loading any new modules, it's staying in arranger window.  It just has to figure out where to put a bunch of bars, and then write them. 

Deactivate the visualization (click the little monitor icon.  it disable the portion of the program that has instructions to write to the screen (but nothing else, your mouse cursor, etc.. all of that, is still moving around in the computer's memmory/processor) so BEFORE you do that, disable the catch.  Click the little man.

You will have both resource hogging actions disabled smile

Trust me on this, please.

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#9 2006-10-30 08:43:06

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: looses sync!!

dotmatrix wrote:

ok then tell me what must I do to avoid sync failure ?

i could deactivate catch , but then I don't know where i am when playing live.
i tried to scroll to the end of the track and from the end back to the beginning again and again , sometimes it works and I can
play the whole song without sync fail , but 1 out of 3 times it looses sync anyway.
what to do?

Sadly, this old piece of hardware is not well equipped for this type of thing.  Any hiccup can lose sync.

I suggest listening to your songs a few times so you know how many bars of what ar ehappening, and keep count in your head, that way you don't need to look at the screen to know where you are..

and practice practice practice smile

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#10 2006-10-30 09:56:10

MikeTorino
Guest

Re: looses sync!!

Slorrin: Sorry, you're right... I totally missed out that "SPL" note.. wink

It's a little weird that it looses sync when switching pages, I haven't really noticed that myself.. My guess is that the program plays the music through interrupts and the screen updates separately. That way it shouldn't loose sync unless of course, the program gets really choked!

 

#11 2006-10-31 14:26:33

dotmatrix
Monty
Registered: 2006-10-23
Posts: 87
Website

Re: looses sync!!

it does!

it also does sometimes when the spl comes to a transposed alias sequence!

im getting the impression that sync follow is really lousy herein...

m.

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#12 2006-10-31 14:46:42

dotmatrix
Monty
Registered: 2006-10-23
Posts: 87
Website

Re: looses sync!!

there is no other way then deactivating catch as far as i tried it out yesterday.
in a seven minute long song its a pity  because i can't even zoom out any more.
so i have to to everything off by heart.
in the one way , it should be no problem , in the other way it IS when you imagine you have to operate two gameboys and one drumbox in the meantime.
beeing just one bar to late with the other equipment can result in a complete failure when it comes to a complex breakdown.

for now i would call it a severe bug , at least if you keep in mind that you even can't use transposed sequences when syncing.

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#13 2006-10-31 14:56:02

dotmatrix
Monty
Registered: 2006-10-23
Posts: 87
Website

Re: looses sync!!

not to make the impression of a complete asshole in here  i would pay the price of a cartridge again to get a proper sync implementation
(if updating the cart is not possible)

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#14 2006-10-31 15:06:11

MikeTorino
Guest

Re: looses sync!!

Funny thing mine works without a problem, whether changing pages or playing transposed alias sequences...
I just got a weird idea... what if your project somehow has been corrupt making the sequencer play havoc with your song?
Have you tried to start it up with a new fresh empty project, sync it and catch a new page/play transposed aliases.. does it still behave in the same way?

 

#15 2006-11-01 02:45:31

Slorrin
PROPHET64 GURU
Registered: 2006-07-09
Posts: 871

Re: looses sync!!

maybe the problem is irregular sync signals.

Things like fruity loops are BS when it comes to midi output, and if you're using a midi/sync converter for it.. whoo hoo, look out!

(fruit loops is good if you ahve a fast dual core processor, no doubt, but for someone like me, with a p4, it's so irregular it's laughable.. doesn't even make sense.. midi out is SOOO not system heavy)

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#16 2006-11-02 20:07:52

dotmatrix
Monty
Registered: 2006-10-23
Posts: 87
Website

Re: looses sync!!

i used to sync it with my gameboy. again: when turning catch off and not using transposed sequences it works properly.

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#17 2006-11-02 20:09:19

dotmatrix
Monty
Registered: 2006-10-23
Posts: 87
Website

Re: looses sync!!

i will test it out as soon as i have the time for it. (to get  test results that tell when and why it happens.)

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