PROPHET64 & MSSIAH Userforum

soulwrath · 2011-04-18 20:24:55

Hi!

About a week ago I finally got my C64 from eBay and the MSSIAH cartridge. Since I don't have a TV screen near my studio setup I had to find a way to control MSSIAH / Mono Synthesizer exclusively with my MIDI keyboard and controllers.

After a first (partly failed) attempt to create a Reaktor 5 patch I switched to Pure Data.

First the good part: all parameters work fine and so I am able to change every parameter via my screen and mouse. There are still some minor things to fix but the main parameter controls are there.

But now the problem: if I change CC values while MIDI notes are sent, Mono Synthesizer starts to behave strange. Sometimes everything works fine, sometimes the MIDI notes don't stop playing anymore, the notes "blur" or the CC parameters suddenly have no effect anymore. That's really annoying because as long as I don't solve that problem, I don't have much practical use for the C64 and MSSIAH

Does anyone of you have an idea what could be the problem? I am aware that there seems to be a limit of simultanous MIDI messages that can be processed by the C64, but should it not be possible to change a control value while playing notes?

One last (offtopic) thing: is there any special trick if I want to create those classic fast chiptune arpeggios (1/32 or 1/64)? If I use Ableton Live's internal arpeggiator it sounds as if the SID was too slow to keep up to the speed. That's a bit disappointing.

Thanks for your help!

Last edited by soulwrath (2011-04-18 20:42:39)

DjFluorescent · 2011-04-19 05:57:36

O_O I love pure data. that looks wonderful. I don't know a thing about actually creating .pd patches, but some of my favorite noise makers are Pure Data

I hope you get things sorted.

soulwrath · 2011-04-19 09:05:13

Thanks for the kind words ;-)

If I get the whole thing working (and that means without any MIDI glitches) I would provide a free download link - and since Pure Data is free and cross-platform software, everybody interested in it should be able to use it. That is, if I can sort the problem out...

I have now ordered one of the old C64/Amiga joysticks to test if this problem also occurs when sending MIDI notes and joystick value changes. As I've said I don't have a TV screen near my studio so this would only be for testing.

Again, does anybody have experience with problems occuring when sending MIDI notes and CC values at the same time?

Edit:

Reading older posts in this forum I found a note about "limiting CC messages". Here is what the manual says:

When sending control change messages to the MSSIAH Mono Synthesizer, remember to make some room in between the messages. Mono Synthesizer accepts CC-messages with an interval of approximately 2mS. That means you shouldn't put two control change messages on the same MIDI event.

Does that only reference to CC messages or also to MIDI note events? Does anyone have an idea how to implement such a delay between CC messages?

And this still leaves the following problem: even if I can implement something to make a gap between each CC message there is still the possibility that I tweak a knob (= change a value) while my MIDI note sequence is running - which could result in a interval between CC and note message that is <2mS. How could that be solved? Cross-interaction with Ableton Live and checking back if there is currently a note message going out? That sucks

Last edited by soulwrath (2011-04-19 09:37:14)

soulwrath · 2011-04-19 11:38:42

I know, double postings are bad - but I have made some progress

Using Pd's "pipe" and "random" objects I have found a way to create gaps with varying length between each CC step. I have no possibility to test my changes right now but I will try in the evening.

My guess is, the "reset" function of my patch should now work properly since there is a (randomly generated) gap between each message.

But I am afraid that this still does not help against the problem "MIDI notes vs. CC messages". There is still the possibility that a MIDI note message is sequenced/sent exactly in the same moment as I tweak a knob...any ideas?

If I would create a sequencer within Pure Data I could make something that delays CC messages every time a MIDI note is hit. But I want to use my normal DAW and I am afraid in that case this would be quite hard to implement...

deadrom · 2011-04-21 17:58:26

Okay, I've had the same kinds of problems with my Maxmsp patch. I haven't worked with this for a while so it's not all fresh in my mind but I'll try to help.

soulwrath wrote:
Using Pd's "pipe" and "random" objects I have found a way to create gaps with varying length between each CC step. I have no possibility to test my changes right now but I will try in the evening.

My guess is, the "reset" function of my patch should now work properly since there is a (randomly generated) gap between each message.

If I understand you right, that should work. The way that I "reset" the entire patch in Monosynth is to send each CC message one at a time, with a pretty big delay...It was like 50ms, but you'll have to experiment. I believe that everyone have different amounts of latency in midi connections, which will affect how much time you need.

soulwrath wrote:
But I am afraid that this still does not help against the problem "MIDI notes vs. CC messages". There is still the possibility that a MIDI note message is sequenced/sent exactly in the same moment as I tweak a knob...any ideas?

This has been a problem for me, but usually I am able to send at least one CC message at the same time as a Note event. If this is a big problem one thing you might consider is running midi from your DAW into PD and have that signal delay any similtaneous CC message by a few milliseconds. This would also make it possible to manipulate controls in the patch from your DAW. I'll try to find a virtual midi patcher for osx when I have time later. Also make sure that you are only sending those two events by using a midi monitor. It's just a program that displays outgoing midi events, so you can see exactly what your patch is sending. Here's one: http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/

Good luck!

Edit---
I think this software will patch midi between programs if you'd like to use a midi monitor or whatever.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/a … chbay.html

Last edited by deadrom (2011-04-22 17:28:24)

soulwrath · 2011-04-24 18:15:44

@ deadrom:

Thanks for your reply and the program suggestions. Currently I am simply using the internal IAC MIDI driver (found under audio/MIDI settings) of OS X to pass MIDI data between applications. I have also tried another approach to check if there is currently MIDI data going out and stop outgoing messages if the interval is under a certain value. Unfortunately that also did not work as I had hoped.

To be honest, I've given up on the whole MIDI thing. I am currently soldering a DIY controller paddle and I will stick to MSSIAH's internal sequencer and controls. This is really unfortunate but I've already spent to many hours patching without success

Nevertheless thanks for your help

PROPHET64 & MSSIAH Userforum

#1 2011-04-18 20:24:55

CC disturbs MIDI notes

#2 2011-04-19 05:57:36

Re: CC disturbs MIDI notes

#3 2011-04-19 09:05:13

Re: CC disturbs MIDI notes

#4 2011-04-19 11:38:42

Re: CC disturbs MIDI notes

#5 2011-04-21 17:58:26

Re: CC disturbs MIDI notes

soulwrath wrote:

soulwrath wrote:

#6 2011-04-24 18:15:44

Re: CC disturbs MIDI notes

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