PROPHET64 & MSSIAH Userforum

melle · 2007-07-01 15:00:50

Any chance for a Sequencer Demo Version?

I heard some mp3 examples. But it seems that the musical quality is quite below what can be done with other (more modern) c64 music editors. So, I would like to test it on myself if I can tweak it to the limit.

Ps: Who is behind prophet64. who is it's creator?
Ps2: Future plans? Maybe 'prophet tracker'?

Edit: Now I know. Peter Eriksson aka Torpex (Tpx) is it's creator.
Can remember very well the old Tpx-Tracker from anno '91. Still, most people don't know this tool.

Last edited by melle (2007-07-01 16:00:23)

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 07:46:25

Nope, the people behind these apps is a company called "8bit ventures". (I know for sure it's not the same as "tpx"..)

melle · 2007-07-02 10:56:40

MikeTorino wrote:
Nope, the people behind these apps is a company called "8bit ventures". (I know for sure it's not the same as "tpx"..)

I hope for an official statement from "8bit ventures". http://www.8bitventures.com/ has only a blank page.

Edit: And the owner of 8bitventures is Peter Eriksson.
I guess it is a 'one-man company'.

Last edited by melle (2007-07-02 11:25:37)

commodork · 2007-07-02 11:31:22

More modern c64 editors??????
You seem to contradict yourself, you say the P64 sequencer is "not modern" and you ask for a tracker????
Don't get it I'm affraid.

And the sound quality depends on the SID-chip, P64's sequencer can do anything it can do.
Trust me, the sequencer alone is worth the 32 euro's, less than some shareware applications.

Get it, and be amazed

GRTZ
Commodork

Last edited by commodork (2007-07-02 11:31:59)

melle · 2007-07-02 12:07:41

commodork wrote:
More modern c64 editors??????
You seem to contradict yourself, you say the P64 sequencer is "not modern" and you ask for a tracker????
Don't get it I'm affraid.

And the sound quality depends on the SID-chip, P64's sequencer can do anything it can do.
Trust me, the sequencer alone is worth the 32 euro's, less than some shareware applications.

Get it, and be amazed

GRTZ
Commodork

Ok, it looks 'very modern', but I don't know how it is inside: Demo required.
Do you think that trackers can't be modern? (look to renoise)

It is possible to create music like todays c64-scene elite composers?

Look:

http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/N/Nata/Stargate.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/B/Blu … lub_69.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/J/Jam … ection.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Hard_Track.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/Q/Q-M … 08_303.sid

What about the Hardrestart? How accurate it is? And And...

Need to test on myself before I buy.

Last edited by melle (2007-07-02 12:14:04)

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 12:20:16

I agree with commodork, in fact I think p64 is the latest c64 music editor there is (made in 2006).
It's not a low cpu demo music player if that's what you're looking for. However it's a great interface for modern musicians so that the c64 can have a place next to your other gear in the studio (guess where mine is).
I don't think they'll ever release a "tracker". I remember (correct me if I'm wrong) the cartridge release a little over a year ago. The ads for the programs clearly defied the tracker style as a user friendly interface.
Personally I agree to that even though I'm quite aware a large part of the c64 community might feel differently about it. Considering the massive work such a sequencer must have taken though, I would be very surprised if a prophet tracker ever saw the light of day..

8bv told me the site is coming up later (whenever that'll be.. :-) ). The info I got was that the company is made up of a couple of busy IT-consultants plus one guy that is hired part time to take orders (and by commiting to that, he's become pretty busy too.. :-) )

melle · 2007-07-02 12:26:35

It's not a low cpu demo music player

It's not that. I really don't bother about P64 high cpu usage. I just would like to test first and possibly listen to some P64 *.sid files.

Last edited by melle (2007-07-02 12:30:03)

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 12:42:15

Well you have got yourself quite a dilemma then... ;-)

Briefly listening to your audio examples, I know for sure the p64 sequencer cant do "multi speed" or sid sampling. Neither does it utilize samples (or "digis" as some people call it).
It's more of a classic fat c64 rob hubbard sound machine but with much better interface and a great way of synchronizing it to other gear. Being locked to synchronization I guess you can't control the hard restart as exact as other programs but it works for me.
If you like the classic wave table drums the prophet64 gives you plenty. If you're looking for multi-speed (sorry, don't know the exact word for it) drum effects you'll probably be disappointed.

Now, it's important to know that all the apps are meant to be run stand-alone, i.e., there's a mono synthesizer, a bassline, a drum machine and the sequencer. Many people like to hook up the Drummer and Bassline for example. As such, the bassline really kicks butt. Using the 8580, it wipes the floor with any other attempt to sound like a tb-303 on the c64. Of course you can't add drums or other sounds to it and export it to a stand-alone sid-file (only the sequencer can do that) but I guess that's not the purpose with the p64. It's targeted towards musicians and a studio environment.

melle · 2007-07-02 12:48:12

Well you have got yourself quite a dilemma then... ;-)

Briefly listening to your audio examples, I know for sure the p64 sequencer cant do "multi speed" or sid sampling. Neither does it utilize samples (or "digis" as some people call it).

All example songs are standard 50Hz (normal) + no sampling.

ron · 2007-07-02 12:54:50

MikeTorino wrote:
It's targeted towards musicians and a studio environment.

E-xact-ly! That should be the headline of the p64 homepage

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 12:56:18

Why the ---- doesn't my smilies turn up as icons?!?! :-) : ;-) Testing...testing...

(and yes... smilies are ON!! :-)

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 12:57:53

Ah... got it..

ron · 2007-07-02 13:19:27

help yourself

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 13:24:37

*embarrassed*...

(now how does one make a smiley for that.. )

Tristan · 2007-07-02 13:32:23

melle wrote:
Any chance for a Sequencer Demo Version?

You're not the first to ask this. The answer has always been no. Considering how politely people have asked in tha past, I doubt anyone is going to make an exception for you, rudebwoy.

melle wrote:
I heard some mp3 examples. But it seems that the musical quality is quite below what can be done with other (more modern) c64 music editors. So, I would like to test it on myself if I can tweak it to the limit.

1: Please define musical quality (as opposed to sound quality, I assume).
2: Please list any C64 music editors that were released after P64, as I have never heard of any.
3: You are a C64?

melle wrote:
Ps: Who is behind prophet64. who is it's creator?
Ps2: Future plans? Maybe 'prophet tracker'?

Edit: Now I know. Peter Eriksson aka Torpex (Tpx) is it's creator.
Can remember very well the old Tpx-Tracker from anno '91. Still, most people don't know this tool.

IDK, IDC. There are a myriad of trackers available for C64, if that's how you prefer to work, I would strongly suggest using one of them.

melle wrote:
It is possible to create music like todays c64-scene elite composers?

Look:

http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/N/Nata/Stargate.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/B/Blu … lub_69.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/J/Jam … ection.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Hard_Track.sid
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/Q/Q-M … 08_303.sid

4/4 trance pants like Stargate is easily possible.
4/4 generic dance trousers like Club_69 is also easily possible.
4/4 dnb ballbags like Sweet_Infection is easily possible (sounds like this one may need 2 sids though).
4/4 retro techno insomnia cures like Hard_Track is piss easy and could be made by accident if you're not careful.
4/4 acid goodness like 808_303_808 is again, very easily attainable using p64.

melle wrote:
What about the Hardrestart? How accurate it is? And And...

There's a pretty accurate diagram regarding that somewhere... Perhaps in the manual.

P64 is for using the c64 as an audio device, not for making *.sid demos. I hope this info is a big help.

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 14:08:38

You're not the first to ask this. The answer has always been no. Considering how politely people have asked in tha past, I doubt anyone is going to make an exception for you, rudebwoy.

I recall a "faq" on the p64 site before the long awaited release last year. One of the questions answered was "is there a sequencer demo version?" and they made it perfectly clear that the program size was too hefty to squeeze into a demo version.
That makes perfectly sense why there is no demo as it would turn out quite lame and not really reflect the real program.

melle · 2007-07-02 14:23:31

1: Please define musical quality (as opposed to sound quality, I assume).
2: Please list any C64 music editors that were released after P64, as I have never heard of any.
3: You are a C64?

I remember some anno '91 msx editors (and some others which were released in the last few years) which are able to produce an extreme accurate Hardrestart. This means that you are able to make f.ex. drums like with modern drum machines. (try to create some hard techno drums without perfect HR.) http://utenti.lycos.it/ice00/HVMEC/CONTROL/

P64 is for using the c64 as an audio device, not for making *.sid demos. I hope this info is a big help.

I do not want to make demos. But *.sid is a flexible way to share the music around the world.

Please, could anyone convert the P64-Sequencer example song to *.sid?... (it's pretty easy to do) and upload it to the file section http://www.prophet64-forum.com/uploads.php

I would like to listen it on my C64. Thanks!

Last edited by melle (2007-07-02 15:48:09)

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 15:13:00

I see a problem here, the Sequencer demo song uses six tracks, i.e., 2 sids.. I don't know of any sid players that can handle two sids.. (but I like to be wrong on this one.. )

melle · 2007-07-02 15:19:30

No problem. You can upload a PRG too. For me everything works.
Edit: *.sid works fine too since I can load it directly from mmc64.

Last edited by melle (2007-07-02 15:50:25)

melle · 2007-07-02 18:44:50

Arent there any 'effect-commands' like in trackers?
How do I change f.ex ADSR (very important), vibrato, cutoff or pulse within the sequences?

commodork · 2007-07-02 19:16:53

You can change all that stuff within an instrument, and you use those instrument to build your sequence.
A sequence-phrase isn't limited to one instrument, so unlimited possibilities here.

If you're really serious about making music on a commodore, and you really come across as a serious and demanding person IMO, 32 euro's is not much to spend to extend your tools for that, next to other SID-tools.
Come on, it's the price of like two CD's, what are you affraid of.
Read the other reviews of sequencer users and trust their opinion.

Not used to paying some money for stuff anymore, with illegal cracks and MP3's freely available?

Don't be a wiener, get into the groove :-)

Commodork.

melle · 2007-07-02 19:27:24

You can change all that stuff within an instrument, and you use those instrument to build your sequence.
A sequence-phrase isn't limited to one instrument, so unlimited possibilities here.

Then it isn't possible to overwrite instruments ADSR within sequences with other values?
I think there aren't enough instruments if I would like to reproduce todays scene music. (tons of different Attack, Sustain or release settings within a song)

Last edited by melle (2007-07-02 19:28:33)

commodork · 2007-07-02 19:42:21

You are annoying me a bit.
You're very demanding, but don't want to pay a little money for software?
Guess you'll even want your money back when you find out it has no midi built in, huh?

But seriously:
You could even use P64 for the stuff it can do easily and intuitively (like drums and a bass, maybe pads), and use your favourite tracker on a different C64-machine for the freaky stuff. Guarranteed better workflow.

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 21:09:07

Commodork: Come on, give the guy a break. He wants to make sure the software delivers before making a purchase, it's nothing wrong with that, is it?

Melle: I posted the sequencer demo song in the files section. You can use the Vice emulator to get the full six tracks playing, the program asks you for the second sid address at startup.
(or, if you've got two sids in your c64 - play it on the real thing!)

About the adsr changes in real time, well, the p64 sequencer uses note velocity like a "real" modern sequencer thus capable of changing a couple of parameters via velocity. One option that I really like is that you can apply velocity to either the decay or the sustain level thereby getting velocity sensitivity with both straight 0 0 15 0 sounds AND wave table sounds with different adsr settings. I think the demo song makes use of that for the drums.
There are no "commands" in the sequencer.

MikeTorino · 2007-07-02 21:11:39

Oops, me and Tonka must have posted at the same time. He also mentions velocity but he's wrong about pulse width. You can assign note velocity to the pulse width setting.

PROPHET64 & MSSIAH Userforum

#1 2007-07-01 15:00:50

Sequencer Demo??

#2 2007-07-02 07:46:25

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#3 2007-07-02 10:56:40

Re: Sequencer Demo??

MikeTorino wrote:

#4 2007-07-02 11:31:22

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#5 2007-07-02 12:07:41

Re: Sequencer Demo??

commodork wrote:

#6 2007-07-02 12:20:16

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#7 2007-07-02 12:26:35

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#8 2007-07-02 12:42:15

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#9 2007-07-02 12:48:12

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#10 2007-07-02 12:54:50

Re: Sequencer Demo??

MikeTorino wrote:

#11 2007-07-02 12:56:18

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#12 2007-07-02 12:57:53

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#13 2007-07-02 13:19:27

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#14 2007-07-02 13:24:37

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#15 2007-07-02 13:32:23

Re: Sequencer Demo??

melle wrote:

melle wrote:

melle wrote:

melle wrote:

melle wrote:

#16 2007-07-02 14:08:38

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#17 2007-07-02 14:23:31

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#18 2007-07-02 15:13:00

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#19 2007-07-02 15:19:30

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#20 2007-07-02 18:44:50

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#21 2007-07-02 19:16:53

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#22 2007-07-02 19:27:24

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#23 2007-07-02 19:42:21

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#24 2007-07-02 21:09:07

Re: Sequencer Demo??

#25 2007-07-02 21:11:39

Re: Sequencer Demo??

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