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#1 2009-03-24 02:22:38

lynxxx
Nebulus
From: the free west
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 61
Website

MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

To avoid cluttering other threads with replies related to something I am working on at the moment I have created this topic that will cover everything related to the development of MSSIAH SQ3, aka The Vicious Sid Editor smile This thread will serve as a FAQ and blog of development changes and releases.

Please feel free to add comments, remarks, or questions in this topic. Who knows, I might incorporate your ideas or requests in a future update smile

What is it
A Plugin for VST Hosts such as Cubase to control the MSSIAH Sequencer application via Midi. I will only be testing it in Cubase SX3 at this time and will depend on others to see if it works in other sequencing programs

Who are you?
I am just another MSSIAH user with a bad hair day.

What does it do?
This plugin enables users to tweak virtually all CC parameters of MSSIAH Sequencer via MIDI from the VST host by pressing buttons and turning knobs in a cool interface and load and save presets for the entire virtual control surface. It will not incorporate any "sequencing" functionality as that is fully covered by my VST host already thank you. This plugin serves as a control surface for sound design / tweaking only.

Will it support loading and saving of presets?
Uh. Didn't I just write that? The plugin has an internal preset manager that enables users to save and load the controller settings. After a preset is selected the user can "upload" the settings to MSSIAH. The program will then commence the send of a sequence of cc commands with slight delays so the MSSIAH doesnt get flooded with CC messages. At the moment, presets are saved to and loaded from text files so exchanging sounds with others should be fairly easy.

What about "live tweaking"
Users can tweak all the knobs "live" without any delays as this will limit the sending of cc messages to a single knob (whichever is being tweaked at the time). No delays are programmed for this as this would induce MIDI lag and I hate that. So yes, automation can and possibly will drive MSSIAH crazy.

OMGWTFBBQ You mean it will support automation?
Most likely: yes. However, if you automate too many controls simultaneously the MSSIAH might get flooded with cc messages. Automation is not implemented at this time (yet) but is on the wishlist and will likely be implemented in the next few weeks or so. If it doesnt work: to bad. If it does: cool.

Will it support snapshots so I instantly get my latest tweaks in a VST host project?
Not sure yet. Possibly yes. Might need to add some routines for this to work properly. Will be testing this in the next two weeks or so.

Will I be able to use a hardware midi controller with this?
Also not sure yet. It should be possible to filter incoming CC's and link those to the virtual controllers, which in turn would drive the MSSIAH so all incoming tweaking can be visualized. This is definitely on my wishlist. In the mean time I will likely add a MIDI thru like functionality so any CC's coming from your hardware controller and sent to the MIDI In of the plugin will be transmitted as well (without the aforementioned broadcast limitation through delayed cc sequences). Will this drive the MSSIAH crazy? possibly, but we'll see how far we can push it smile

Will it cost a fortune?
The single voice editor (SQ1) will be released as freeware/donationware.

Any other plans?
I am working on an expanded "ultimate" version to be released in the (far) future that will enable tweaking of multiple voices simulatenously, and have some added cool stuff like a separate arpeggiator and a trancegate (woohooo) smile That version will most likely not be free as it is taking a huge amount of time to develop and I am an evil bastard. Donators will probably get some sort of discount. In order to obtain that version you will likely need to sell me your sister, donate organs, perform sexual favors or pay me a small amount of money. I might even throw in a suite of plugins (to control all MSSIAH applications) if I feel like it. But for now lets just focus on this "simple" version to see if I can get it to work at all smile

I hate VST and you suck
I dont care. The logic required to manage the control surface, link certain controls and send a correctly ordered, delayed sequence of cc parameters (so the wavetable can be edited "live" too) is way too complicated to stuff things into a simple MIDI panel. A VST will also enable more people to use the application. I opted for VST because I like it better and my devtool has more functionality than you can shake a cartridge at.

Will it support Mac or <insert any obscure non PC type computer here>
No. As far as I am aware my devtool (Synthmaker) supports PC VST and EXE programs only. Which reminds me. An EXE version might be available too for people that dont have a VST host but would like easier tweaking of the MSSIAH anyway

When will it be available?
When it is done smile I am currently very busy testing stuff and making small changes. Unfortunately my C64 required some repairs this week so things got delayed again. I am not going to give any final release date but will post news here and provide links to downloadable test versions as soon as they become available.

Can I run multiple instances (1 for each voice, or SID or whatever?
Most likely: yes. Currently testing this. Note that any changes made in one instance affecting the SID as a whole (main volume, VCF settings etc) will thus mess up your other instruments/voices too.

So what does it look like?
This is a preliminary screenshot with some added C64 fun which may or may not be included in the final release (in this or slightly altered form due to copyrights issues). I added it because it made me smile, but at the moment its taking up more space than necessary. I kindly ask you dont pirate this background for other VSTs or similar stuff as it has taken me a considerable amount of time to create.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/219/screenshot1e.png

I am trying to figure out how to switch between C64 skin and compact mode so people with less deskspace can use the plugin without filling up the entire screen. Nothing in the design is final yet, but it should give you some idea of what it will look like). This is not a photoshop, but the actual control surface that I am tweaking right now. The version you see here is missing some modules (indicated by the black space) that will enable users to tweak the MIDI settings for this instance. Thats a work in progress. The display will show the current controller setting and midi message while the user turns a knob or presses a button. In "idle" mode, the current preset is displayed. I am working on a small gimmick that will enable donators to display their forum nickname in a scroller while the control surface is in "idle" mode. As you can see quite a lot has changed since the last screenshot that I posted. I will post more details on technical changes/additions/challenges later.

How does the loading of  a preset / tweaking of  an instrument go?
On the C64:
- Switch your MSSIAH Sequencer program into (the appropriate) MIDI Mode
On the PC:
- Set the midi channel and program number you wish to edit
- Select a preset
- Press the "update SID button"
- Wait while awesomeness is uploaded through a bunch of CC messages
- Voila! Turn knobs and enjoy instant SID coolness

Can I export shit to my C64?
No. At this time you can simply upload preset and do live parameter/knob tweaking through CC messages. Not sure if you can save the tweaked stuff in MSSIAH, havent tested it yet. It shouldnt be hard to write something that can convert SQ1/3 preset files into files that can be read by MSSIAH or other C64 (music) software though. Might look into that once this plugin is done.

How can I help?
if you are a MSSIAH / SID guru contact me at info AT <REMOVETHIS> lynxxx.nl . I have tons of technical questions about the MIDI implementation of MSSIAH and the technical design of the SID in general. I need answers to be able to make some important decisions in application design and GUI flow.

Hurry the f#ck up!
I am doing my best but have a company to run as well, so be patient. It'll (hopefully) be worth it. Oh, and the faster I get the info I need, the faster I can finish the VST wink

You bastard! All text and no link!
Correct. I decided to make a separate topic about this app to get some conversation going and hopefully get some people to talk tech stuff with me so I can finish this. As soon as I have a version done that is properly tested by yours truly, a link will be provided here smile

Last edited by lynxxx (2009-03-24 02:24:24)


"I went to see the person writing our operating system. He had about 4-5 Sun computers and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he'd spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."
- Adam Chowaniec / co-creator of the Amiga computer

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#2 2009-03-24 09:57:11

PIGSNOOT
Nibbler
From: Belgium
Registered: 2009-02-08
Posts: 44
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

BADASS!
I'm a Cubase user so Count me In!!!!
But If it also works within ableton, it would be really easy to assign the parameters to an external midi controller...and thus nice for live tweaking!

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#3 2009-03-24 12:20:28

lynxxx
Nebulus
From: the free west
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 61
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

I have no experience whatsoever with Ableton Live but I'll look into it once I have a working release available.


"I went to see the person writing our operating system. He had about 4-5 Sun computers and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he'd spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."
- Adam Chowaniec / co-creator of the Amiga computer

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#4 2009-03-24 13:35:25

PIGSNOOT
Nibbler
From: Belgium
Registered: 2009-02-08
Posts: 44
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Yeah Ableton kinda sucks in recording and creating music, but it's a must for live tweaking and performing, You can automatically map every hardware controll to whatever software parameter at the twist of a button!

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#5 2009-03-24 16:00:13

kingconga42
Bomb Jack
From: US and A
Registered: 2007-10-16
Posts: 32
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

This looks promising!
Go! Go! Go!

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#6 2009-03-24 16:05:52

PIGSNOOT
Nibbler
From: Belgium
Registered: 2009-02-08
Posts: 44
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Off topic for a moment here...

hEY Burnkit guys!!!
Didn't know you were on this forum!
Did you get my last message?
About the Boo! remix?
Anyway just saying hello from Vermin twins!

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#7 2009-03-24 17:09:36

Queaver
Bloody beginner
From: Ger
Registered: 2009-02-17
Posts: 9
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

great stuff, absolutely looking forward to this.

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#8 2009-03-24 23:54:27

kingconga42
Bomb Jack
From: US and A
Registered: 2007-10-16
Posts: 32
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Hi, Mr. Vermin!
Yeah, sorry to hear you weren't happy with your remix attempt. Keep us posted if you decide to give it another shot. Remember, it doesn't have to be true to the original!
Sounds like you've got a lot of bending projects on the table. Keep us posted on those as well.... The 3 of us each have MSSIAH, so i think we'll be using that quite a bit on our next release!
-justin

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#9 2009-03-25 01:04:45

vince64
Bomb Jack
From: Netherlands
Registered: 2007-02-07
Posts: 34

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Holy shit!, mad respect!

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#10 2009-03-25 11:30:04

vince64
Bomb Jack
From: Netherlands
Registered: 2007-02-07
Posts: 34

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

If ya need some beta-testing, Just shout! big_smile

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#11 2009-03-27 12:14:40

tomica
Gianas Sister
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 27

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

all i can say is hoooooooooooooooooooooooraaaaaay!

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#12 2009-03-30 18:04:27

RebornOnline
Zak
Registered: 2009-02-06
Posts: 126
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Nice work Lynxxx.

If you want some nicer graphics, I can help out, just let me know wink


Griff - Reborn
www.rebornonline.com

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#13 2009-03-31 23:44:28

pamplemousse_mk2
Gianas Sister
Registered: 2007-10-20
Posts: 28

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Will it be available on Mac OS X?

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#14 2009-04-01 08:39:51

lynxxx
Nebulus
From: the free west
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 61
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

pamplemousse_mk2 wrote:

Will it be available on Mac OS X?

Unless you have a way to run a VST host in a windows emulator, no. My development software only supports PC I'm afraid.


"I went to see the person writing our operating system. He had about 4-5 Sun computers and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he'd spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."
- Adam Chowaniec / co-creator of the Amiga computer

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#15 2009-04-02 11:06:05

dschohennes
Nebulus
From: Colima, Mex; Karlsruhe, Ger
Registered: 2008-10-24
Posts: 64

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

It's a crime to develop music software not running on a mac *iajbwevbasv*

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#16 2009-04-02 11:16:27

KONEY
PROPHET64 GURU
From: VENICE - ITALY
Registered: 2006-07-08
Posts: 1062
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

To me it's a crime to make music on a mac smile


Anyway great plugin, this is far better than any midi panel!

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#17 2009-04-03 10:51:41

ron
PROPHET64 GURU
From: berlin
Registered: 2006-07-08
Posts: 502
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

To me it's a crime to make music with VSTs at all yikes

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#18 2009-04-04 00:59:13

lynxxx
Nebulus
From: the free west
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 61
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

dschohennes wrote:

It's a crime to develop music software not running on a mac *iajbwevbasv*

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8591/1238741402439.gif

Hehehehe. sorry couldnt resist smile Personally I dont care what platform people use and whether they use VSTs or not. Its what you do with it that counts. Unfortunately my software doesnt support mac. If it did, there would be a mac version too once its done :-)

Last edited by lynxxx (2009-04-04 01:00:28)


"I went to see the person writing our operating system. He had about 4-5 Sun computers and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he'd spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."
- Adam Chowaniec / co-creator of the Amiga computer

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#19 2009-04-11 15:00:13

tomica
Gianas Sister
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 27

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

how's the development going monsieur lynxxx?

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#20 2009-04-14 08:20:50

lynxxx
Nebulus
From: the free west
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 61
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Well the past two weeks have been a complete hell work-wise so I havent gotten around to the MSSIAH much sad The past few days I've been redoing all the cable work in my studio as I've moved the entire setup to another corner in the room. Fortunately all that is almost done now so this week I should have some time to work on the plugin again.

However, last week I've been messing with automation and found that some controls were functioning properly while others weren't so I need to find a solution for this.
Another minor issue I'm still trying to find a workaround for is the retarded midi routing that I currently am using in order to get things working properly.
On a positive note though: I finally received my 1 to 8 Midi thru box so I can control multiple C64s smile

So hopefully more news soon. I'll keep you updated here.


"I went to see the person writing our operating system. He had about 4-5 Sun computers and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he'd spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."
- Adam Chowaniec / co-creator of the Amiga computer

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#21 2009-04-14 08:28:29

tomica
Gianas Sister
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 27

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

nice. this plugin became my ultimate object of desire ever since i first read the first post.

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#22 2009-04-16 23:19:18

luke-beataddicts
The Last Ninja
From: West London
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 258
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

If you do this thing and it will work, you will be famous smile.

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#23 2009-04-28 19:45:58

lynxxx
Nebulus
From: the free west
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 61
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Okay time for a small update.
I've been extremely busy with work lately so the MSSIAH vst development had to be put on hold for a while, but.. I am slowly making progress.

Just wanted to mention that the plugin now supports VST automation smile .

More news later.


"I went to see the person writing our operating system. He had about 4-5 Sun computers and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he'd spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."
- Adam Chowaniec / co-creator of the Amiga computer

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#24 2009-04-28 21:10:53

vince64
Bomb Jack
From: Netherlands
Registered: 2007-02-07
Posts: 34

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Nog geen beta versie of iets anders waar je ons gelukkig mee maakt? big_smile

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#25 2009-04-29 01:38:28

lynxxx
Nebulus
From: the free west
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 61
Website

Re: MSSIAH SQ1/3 VST Plugin

Nope sorry. I'm doing a total redesign of the internals. I ran into a problem where my midi monitoring display crashed the whole application so I got rid of that. Once this new design is done it should be very easy to produce the control surfaces for all other Mssiah applications and well.. any midi enabled piece of hardware actually smile

Also in new version: Midi learn capability. Still testing this but so far its looking good. Select midi learn mode, click a knob on the surface, move whatever slider or knob on whatever midi controller you have linked to your midi input and it will automatically assign the current cc to the "virtual knob". So yes, this will finally enable tweaking with realtime visual feedback. This does introduce some interesting problems as well but I am almost done with a workaround for that smile

So, be patient. It'll be worth it smile

Last edited by lynxxx (2009-04-29 01:41:28)


"I went to see the person writing our operating system. He had about 4-5 Sun computers and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he'd spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."
- Adam Chowaniec / co-creator of the Amiga computer

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